Curse

lord_shar · May 10, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

If you are using a warrior secondary, then wild blow + critical defenses = indefinite 65% block at 12 Critical Strikes (unless something removes CritDef enchantment), and 78% at 16. Wild Blow also removes those nasty enemy block/evasion stances, thereby letting your assassin do his job. Best of all, Wild Blow does not interrupt your assassin's lead/offhand/dual attack sequence. Add Golden Lotus Strike for energy recovery.

My Assassin/Warrior also goes with Temple Strike + Twisting Fangs for very fast boss kills (even with enemy healers nearby).

Beat_Go_Stick · May 10, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Heh, I forgot to comment on the build

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

I use two combos of 3 moves each in my skill bar
combo#1:unsuspecting strike(+27dmg+30dmg if foe was above 90%hp), fox fangs(cannot be blocked or evaded +18dmg), death blossom(+35dmg and +35dmg to each adjacent enemy)
total dmg:+115 or +145 depending on if enemy was above or below 90%hp

combo#2: leaping mantis sting(+19dmg and criples foe for 13 seconds), jungle strike(+18dmg and +25dmg if foe is crippled), 9 tail strike(+35dmg and cannot be blocked or evaded)
total damage:+132dmg on top of whatever you're hits normaly would do

for my other two skills i use recall and shadow form.

I realize that having a build like this can be tempting but, seriously, lose an off-hand attack, take one with a 4 second refresh, and add a res to your bar. Just because you might not die doesn't mean others in your group won't.

Any class in this game can rationalize not putting a res on their bar because "they NEED the slot for their uber-important extra skill!!!" and it's just as selfish/stupid on a build like this as it is on any Warrior, Mesmer, Necro, Ranger, or Elementalist. You think the Warrior in your group couldn't improve his effectiveness by removing his res? Fact of the matter is anyone can die to a fluke accident such as an unexpected roaming patrol or spawning Oni/Assassins/Blood Drinkers and players OTHER THAN MONKS are the ones in those situations that bring the dead ally back to life and save the group from wiping.

Justify it with spike damage all you want but if you think your spike damage makes up for the dead warrior laying at your feet or the dead nuker behind you, you are fooling yourself. Having them alive is much much better than you having a second Off-Hand attack.

Other than that, I really like the build. I've been addicted to Aura of displacement a little too much, I think. Time to give it's opposite a try

ps - The place you dont need the res is in 12v12. Play there if you don't feel like giving aid to others

master chief matt · May 11, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

as a monk in pve i don't bring res. when would i use it? the best time would be after the fight is over but by then if you guys are dead then i am too most likely. you should bring res sig. when the guy next to you dies get him back up. otherwise the whole mission is all about you and all the damage you do. like the whole party needs to worry about keeping you alive just to win. and we know that's not reality. you need to keep your monks alive to win.

it's not the monk's job to res dead players. that's an ignorant thing to say. you should run a monk before saying that.

please don't tell me you've played monk, i dont need to hear that.

when you die it's because you aggroed too much or ventured too far away. sometimes you just get nailed and there are sure some bad monks in pve but most of the time if you pull the bad guys and stay by your monk you'll be just fine.

1: I have played a monk
2: My monk has almost beaten prophecies, and has beaten facions
3: I learned how to use my monk from arguably the best monk in the game.

If you think that it is not the healers job to keep us all alive and bring us back to life when we die then you should just delete your monk. No one wants a monk like you in the group. attackers and dmg dealers go in to deal dmg, while you, the monk, keeps us alive. if we die, and you are our only monk and you say you didnt bring a rez, most poeple will leave you and map back somewhere else.

a pro monk brings 4 core healing spells, hb, heal other, heal party, and word of healing. for a rez spell, resurrect is the prime spell seing as you dont have to be on top of the person and it doesnt take all of your remaining energy after you cast it. on top of that, i like to bring purge conditions and remove hex. the 8th spot is left open for whatever, i personaly like heal area so i can help out the mm, or have a second spell to heal myself, or bring a sig cap.

you're monk is the reason people dont like playing with groups and prefer playing with henchies, because every monk/rit hench brings a rez spell or two.

Mo Joe Joe Joe · May 11, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Please quit posting on whether to carry rez or not carry rez; it has all been quite eloquently debated in many other threads. Let's stick to assasin skills and specifically the build suggested.

I like the build suggested. I had been curious how an assasin can support the energy demands to remain productive and the discussions in here were very good for my enlightenment; Thanks.

Mynghul · May 11, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

1: I have played a monk
2: My monk has almost beaten prophecies, and has beaten facions
3: I learned how to use my monk from arguably the best monk in the game.

Haha, I'm sure...

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

If you think that it is not the healers job to keep us all alive and bring us back to life when we die then you should just delete your monk. No one wants a monk like you in the group. attackers and dmg dealers go in to deal dmg, while you, the monk, keeps us alive. if we die, and you are our only monk and you say you didnt bring a rez, most poeple will leave you and map back somewhere else.

Arrogance + Ignorance = Bad bad bad bad...

So basically you're implying that when someone dies, the monk should stop whatever he's doing, run in range of the corpse, and spend the next 5 seconds rezzing a dead party member to 25% health (Ressurect) while the rest of the team gets pummelled.

Hmm... I guess I see you're point. That's exactly what every "pro" monk should be doing when a party member goes down.

The alternative is of course for every other party member to bring a res sig and quickly res the dead party member back to full health in three seconds while the monk is still free to heal and keep the party alive.

But of course that's horrible, and like you said, it's the healer's job to res and if we think differently we should delete our characters.

/owned
/gg

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

a pro monk brings 4 core healing spells, hb, heal other, heal party, and word of healing. for a rez spell, resurrect is the prime spell seing as you dont have to be on top of the person and it doesnt take all of your remaining energy after you cast it. on top of that, i like to bring purge conditions and remove hex. the 8th spot is left open for whatever, i personaly like heal area so i can help out the mm, or have a second spell to heal myself, or bring a sig cap.

you're monk is the reason people dont like playing with groups and prefer playing with henchies, because every monk/rit hench brings a rez spell or two.

First of all, the monk should not be combat rezzing. It leaves your entire party vulnerable while you waste time and energy bringing someone back to 25% health. So if a monk isn't combat rezzing... with some logic, luck, and a little Guild Wars magic ... we can deduce that a monk would be rezzing outside of combat! Good job!

Because the monk is not combat rezzing, we all know that Rebirth > Ressurect. If you need me to explain why then I give up.

And Purge Conditions

... I guess your "pro monk" taught you to use that one. If the recharge doesn't make you cringe, then I really don't know what to say.

Please, don't respond with any ignorant/arrogant BS and make yourself look even more like a fool. In other words, stop while you're behind.

Sirus Dibley · May 11, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Unless your in a team of noobs , no reason what so ever for everyone to have rez. What rubbish.

fallot · May 11, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

The best monk in the game ? Sure it wasn't the best Warrior/Monk in the game ?

master chief matt · May 11, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mynghul

Haha, I'm sure...

Arrogance + Ignorance = Bad bad bad bad...

So basically you're implying that when someone dies, the monk should stop whatever he's doing, run in range of the corpse, and spend the next 5 seconds rezzing a dead party member to 25% health (Ressurect) while the rest of the team gets pummelled.

Hmm... I guess I see you're point. That's exactly what every "pro" monk should be doing when a party member goes down.

The alternative is of course for every other party member to bring a res sig and quickly res the dead party member back to full health in three seconds while the monk is still free to heal and keep the party alive.

But of course that's horrible, and like you said, it's the healer's job to res and if we think differently we should delete our characters.

/owned
/gg

First of all, the monk should not be combat rezzing. It leaves your entire party vulnerable while you waste time and energy bringing someone back to 25% health. So if a monk isn't combat rezzing... with some logic, luck, and a little Guild Wars magic ... we can deduce that a monk would be rezzing outside of combat! Good job!

Because the monk is not combat rezzing, we all know that Rebirth > Ressurect. If you need me to explain why then I give up.

And Purge Conditions

... I guess your "pro monk" taught you to use that one. If the recharge doesn't make you cringe, then I really don't know what to say.

Please, don't respond with any ignorant/arrogant BS and make yourself look even more like a fool. In other words, stop while you're behind.

first off, if you have a problem with my builds, then leave my threads alone.
second, rebirth is horrible, you lose all your remaining energy after you use it, so you cannot heal someone, and with the low hp the are rebirthed with they can die easily.

and no, in the middle of an intense battle a monk shouldnt be rezing dead people, but it is the monks job to keep party members alive.

and finaly, this is a thread about an assasin build, why do you keep bringing up monk builds? if you want to argue monk builds then go to the monk section

holden · May 11, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beat_Go_Stick

Wow, Holden. First of all, I will say that I think it's in the best interest of every party member to bring a res of some sort unless you are with a group who decides someone will not bring one. Second, though it is not what you might want to hear, I have and do play a monk. He was my first character at release and I still enjoy playing him.

i was talking to the op. but i'm glad that you played monk and are comfortable with him. glad to hear it.

i dont bring res when i monk. you do so that's cool. you look at it differently than i.
i dont have time to worry about dead players.
i dont have the space on my bar. i want to remove hexes, conditions, bring protective spirit, bring martyr.....etc, etc. i want to keep them alive. not res them. so i fill my bar with the goods and plan on being the best player in the group. not that I know anything or am any good at this game but I plan to be playing with noobs, that way im not so dissapointed when they draw too much aggro or run me across a mob of badguys.

i like where you are coming from. i can understand why you bring rebirth. it's a priority for you. if im doing a particularly difficult mission i'll bring it but most times the rest of the team, like the OP assassin, will not bring a res unless it's an ele/monk. even the wammo wont bring it. i was letting him know that not all monks will be there with a res to save him from his mistakes.

shadowmist · May 11, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

This build I'm not sure I like a lot. Shadow Form seems a bit iffy to me, and having 6 slots taken away for two different combos isn't very efficient IMO. I would rather have two different types of combos and maybe 4-5 slots used. It's possible to reuse lead attacks and such after all. I'd rather have one combo set though.

Not too sure I like the lack of a res skill. In any PUG group, res skills are a must, as you never know when you'll have a bad player who decides to agro half the map leaving you as the only one alive. Unless you're playing with a lot of players you know are good and trust a lot, I'd say you should always bring res. That said, it isn't always needed in PvP or with a group you know, though it would be best if everyone knew you didn't have it. Wouldn't want someone to waste a res sig on you thinking you also had some sort of res only to find out you didn't have one.

Recall is a nice skill, not always useful, but handy to have. I would put some sort of self heal skill in there. I've noticed a lot of american players don't bring self healing, which IMO, is stupid. There seems to be a line of thought where everyone wants to deal really high damage with no thoughts to staying alive to deal it. You want to take some pressure off your monk and be able to stay alive when your monk is overwhelmed. While monks are great healers, if everyone is dying and everyone just stands there waiting for the monk to do something, it can be a waste energy which can otherwise be saved. Perhaps Shadow's Refuge can fit this slot?

And to the people arguing about monks. There are different ways to play monks and every skill has its place. Its usually better if a monk conforms to what the group wants/needs rather than sticking to what they want. Monks are expected to have res skills, and I usually bring one with me so the group doesn't have to deal with an unpleasant surprise. I've beaten prophecies with a monk and I'm fairly confident when I say I'm a good monk. That said, I also know I'm not the best in every situation and advice from other players is always welcome.

Mynghul · May 11, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by master chief matt

first off, if you have a problem with my builds, then leave my threads alone.
second, rebirth is horrible, you lose all your remaining energy after you use it, so you cannot heal someone, and with the low hp the are rebirthed with they can die easily.

and no, in the middle of an intense battle a monk shouldnt be rezing dead people, but it is the monks job to keep party members alive.

Wow... you just contradicted yourself in the span of three sentences. you said that a monk should not be rezzing in combat, so what does it matter if you lose all your remaining energy if you're not rezzing in combat? And also, Ressurect will bring someone back at 25% health at the place where they died. What happens if they're surrounded by a group of strong enemies? In case you didn't know, Rebirth teleports the corpse back to you and Ressurect brings the corpse back to life at the place where they died. You tell me which one is better.

Mynghul · May 11, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirus Dibley

Unless your in a team of noobs , no reason what so ever for everyone to have rez. What rubbish.

Team of Noobs aka PuG

EDIT:Woops sry for double post

Tingi · May 12, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

First of all, every1 apart from monks should bring rez. Its monks choice weather or not they bring 1 or not. personally wen i play monk in pve i always bring rez but thats jst me. I'm also rly pissed about people using rebirth all the time, especially monks in the heat of battle. Sure it teleports u away from the enemy, but ur skills are disabled for a long time. also it zaps ur energy. Monks should NEVER be the ones who rez in the middle of battle. thats jst common sence.

Charr Killer · May 12, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

have you ever considered:
Illusion of Weakness: lose X amount of health and when your health drops below 25% you are healed same X amount of health

-AND-

Shadow Form {E}: stated in OP

i'm guessing that 41 health is less than 25% in most cases which would instantly heal you 50-200 (depending on level)(0=50 health; 4=100; 12=200)

Iraqalypse Now · May 12, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

healing breeze sucks badly, don't bring it seriously. If you have room on your bar for a slow heal, bring healing seed. If the damage is coming intense enough that the extra 1 second on the cast times matters, you shouldn't be wasting your time with healing breeze. The only reason to ever bring healing breeze is for an ele/monk flag runner.

Why bring heal other and word of healing on the same bar? If anything, you should be going for more energy efficiency with Dwayna's Kiss.

Remove hex is way to slow on anything except a mes/mo, and purge conditions has a horrible recharge - if you really need to take care of condition stacks, bring a bonder or active prot with Restore Conditions.

IMO, the base healing skills for a WoH healer is Word of Healing, Dwayna's Kiss, Heal Party, Healing Seed. You probably also want Orison of Healing or Healing Touch for self heals, although with good positioning and aggro management the situation won't come up often. For condition management, either make a prot monk do it, or if you can't, run mend condition or draw condtions. Hex management should be Inspired Hex + Revealed Hex at an inspiration spec between 6 and 10 - I recommend a 12/10/8 or 11/11/8 base attribute setup, with inspiration at 8.

Now, on to the Assassin...

Why. Do. You. Not. Have. Sixteen. Dagger. Mastery.

Rule number 1 of playing a meelee character - Max out weapon mastery. NO EXCEPTIONS.

To the illusion of weakness suggestion, I am pretty sure it doesn't work, since Illusion of Weakness states that when DAMAGE reduces your health to below 25%, then it heals you. Shadow Form ending is not damage, so Illusion of Weakness doesn't trigger.

I agree that the Aura of Displacement + 4 attack skill combo that was mentioned is basically the best GvG assassin. It is very good at going and soloing people - the combo is very deadly against anyone who doesn't get healed. Personally, I don't think Shadow Refuge is exactly needed - have an extra utility slot listed instead, and make the res signet mandatory.

Shadow form is interesting, but trash. I'd rather have mobius strike or Echo in PvE - 2x death blossom FTW.

prodigy ming · May 12, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

i use to think shadow form is good... until i found out so many things bypass it. what bugs me the most is AOE apparenlty bypass it too.
Too many times have i died during shadow form from double dragon and dragon stomp.
Or when i use return on monk when duration is over, i get one hit kill with arc lighting.
I think flashing blade is a better skill.

fallot · May 12, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iraqalypse Now

Echo in PvE - 2x death blossom FTW.

Echoing wont allow you to use Death Blossom twice in a row. It still needs to follow an off-hand attack.

OSiriS · May 14, 2006, 10:43 PM // 22:43

True, but it would allow you to use Death Blossom at the end of your second combo.

Aerian_Skybane · May 15, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Just to let you know, I like the idea of hte build, although I dont have much problems surviving as a sin if you know how to duck in an out of combat after a combo to shadow refuge, but theres one thing that is really buggin me.

You use shiros blades?? with 12 dagger mastery?? Serious lack of attention if you ask me because you can do better than that for less reqs (shiros blades reqs are 15 DM). the point of an assasin is pure, unabashed damage, and using weak blades, even in support, defeats the purpose. Solution: just get different vampiric daggers (im quire sure they exist, if they dont, forget the vampiric). My two cents on the case.

madaxeman · May 15, 2006, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charr Killer

have you ever considered:
Illusion of Weakness: lose X amount of health and when your health drops below 25% you are healed same X amount of health

-AND-

Shadow Form {E}: stated in OP

i'm guessing that 41 health is less than 25% in most cases which would instantly heal you 50-200 (depending on level)(0=50 health; 4=100; 12=200)

I play tested this and it doesn't trigger IoW. I still use it in a mine runner build though - I use heart of shadow which does trigger it next time you take damage (allied with Dark Escape and Dash).

This still allowed me to take a nice dagger combo that would kill most squishys that got in my way.